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Talk:Rigel VII
"By 2289, its nearly 50 years of membership had become so etched into vacation-goers and explorers alike, that it was the basis for the song Moon Over Rigel VII. (TOS movie: Star Trek V: The Final Frontier)" Really? Does the film establish that much? Also, I'm not sure about the current arrangement of this article. As far as I can tell there are (roughly) three interpretations of the planet, all of which feature the Kaylar in some form, so the current rationale doesn't seem to add up to me. I'd suggest dividing the page into three broad sections (with subsections as necessary) to reflect those various interpretations, something like "Rigellian planet" (for the general stuff), "Kalar world" (for the barbaric preindustrial version), "Orion homeworld" (what it says on the tin). --8of5 21:26, October 23, 2010 (UTC) :The film establishes only that the song "Moon over Rigel VII" exists. (Some other information can be inferred, but it's not relevant to the planet.) :Is there any way to reconcile the various sources? I'm not very familiar with the RPG references or "The Worlds of the Federation". --Columbia clipper 01:25, October 24, 2010 (UTC) The Worlds of the Federation and Star Charts both set up the Kaylar as a simple and dangerous species, so much so that the latter has Rigel VII down as a restricted planet, which definitely doesn't gel with what we get in Early Voyages, or the technologically advanced Kaylar seen in a more recent TNG comic. I have no idea if the Orion stuff can be made to work with either version. --8of5 01:34, October 24, 2010 (UTC) :On the song "Moon Over Rigel VII": It was only suggested in the camping scene in Star Trek V; I don't recall much more than that (I watched it a few months ago). Memory Alpha agrees: http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Moon_over_Rigel_VII :I checked the novelization and it doesn't add anything. Star Trek V is also set in 2287, not 2289, and it's only been 35 years since membership, not "nearly 50". Unless there's an uncited source for it, it seems like a hugely embellished bit of false lore. For the record, I wasn't responsible. :One thing I was responsible for was the arrangement. I wasn't sure how to handle it, and went with the current layout. There seemed to be two main versions: the Rigellian (humanoid)/Kaylar-centric version of the FASA rpg and the comics (which fits the canonical tv series depiction), and the Orion-centric version of the LUG/Decipher rpgs (which fits if you ignore the Orion bits). The first seemed the most supported, so I made it primary. :The two contradict in every area (planetary properties, environments, history, inhabitants) apart from the canon bits from the tv series: a gigantic moon, presence of Kaylar, and Rao Vantika's hack. (Now, it would be perfect if Rigel VII was a double-planet, with one version the planet and the other the moon, but sadly, that's only unlicensed supposition.) :I suppose there's three ways of handling it: :* The current way, with the most supported version first followed by the other (what I did, mainly because it seemed easiest) :* Merge bits of information into each section, as subsections, eg. Environment: *FASA *LUG/Decipher. This would get messy, with the reader frequently switched between different interpretations, though it might be the fairest, with no source overriding another. :* Make two separate pages, perhaps the neatest option, though requiring some duplication or determining where different bits of information belong. :The whole Rigel system is a mess, with over a dozen planets, a few other stars also going by the name Rigel, and some very different depictions over the years (not to mention the Orions themselves), so this kind of problem would end up being rife through the Rigel pages. I also did Rigel I (in that case the two rpg sources were close enough to merge) and Rigel VIII (the other Orion homeworld, though the LUG/Decipher version was very minor, and I put it in an Other Versions section as here). : – BadCatMan 03:02, October 24, 2010 (UTC) :PS: I removed the doubtful bit about the "Moon Over Rigel VII" song. And I should mention: I included the reference to the Rao Vantika event in the primary version, since the event itself is canon, though I left the bit about the Orion Syndicate or Orion Emperor's suspected involvement in the secondary version. – BadCatMan 03:09, October 24, 2010 (UTC) ::Something that none of these interpretations seem to take into account is the ringed body in the sky in "The Menagerie" and "The Cage" (see the image at Zemtar fortress). The body, which we see in both the original and remastered versions of the episodes, is not identified in any source I know of. Whether it is a ringed planet (presumably a gas giant) or a ringed moon is unclear. ::The crew consistently identify the world the fight took place on as Rigel VII (Boyce: 'What's been on your mind, Chris, the fight on Rigel VII?'; Pike, in the illusion: 'This is Rigel VII.'). Nomenclature and orbital dynamics suggest, then, that either Rigel is the name of a massive planet (probably a gas giant) that Rigel VII orbits, or Rigel VII is orbited by both a large, near moon and a more distant, ringed moon. --Columbia clipper 04:17, October 24, 2010 (UTC) :::Good observation! That seems to have been missed in every source ever. However, 'Rigel' is definitely the name of the star, being a matter of astronomical fact and common Trek usage. (Though on the other hand, 'Orion' is actually a constellation, it's sometimes used in Trek as a star or planet, probably applied because of the race.) 'Rigel VII' being the seventh planet is also a matter of common nomenclature (Star followed by Roman Numerals naming a planet), but lazily applying it to a more interesting moon is highly likely. What could it be? :::* gives us its Rigel VI, a ringed gas giant. This is in a separate orbit, putting it absurdly close - not that we can trust Trek to be scientifically accurate. :) :::* also gives us a ringed planet for Rigel VI (though not a gaseous one). Same issue about proximity. :::* meanwhile gives rings to Rigel VIII. :::I don't think there's any evidence for a ringed planetary/lunar body in the Rigel VII orbital slot, bar that image, so it has to be either Rigel VI or Rigel VIII, either strangely magnified or dangerously close. There's evidence for the whole Rigel system to be engineered by ancient aliens, which may explain the proximity of these worlds without crashing into or gravitationally capturing each other.